lopsa-live transcript May 16, 2018 (part 2)

21 May 2018 6:47 PM | Deleted user

Log from channel irc://irc.lopsa.org/#lopsa-live starting 2018-05-16 16:33:16 -0400

Continued from previous post

sandinak but also .. as sysadmins we have a bit of a culture that's not construed as "friendly" some times .. the guy in the hoodie in the closet .. and the aforemention BOFH 21:35
sandinak I think teaching soft skills is almost as important so we *can* have relevant and useful conversations with business leaders that help them make informed decisions and build 21:36
sandinak trust between those gorups 21:36
sandinak outside of beneficiaries .. I would like us to be seen as a resource for those aspiring to be sysadmins .. and those that are to improve 21:36
sandinak so providing those resources in some manner .. via training.. or mentor .. or meeting .. is where I think it's at .. but I dont' think any one of those tools will answer 21:37
sandinak it will take a balance combination and dedication. 21:37
sandinak End of Line 21:37
JNRII Thank you 21:37
JNRII Again, from Bruce: Current members and potential recruits may not ask it, but it's in the back of their minds when they are asked to lay down money for the privilege of joining LOPSA. "What's in it for me?" - How would answer them? 21:37
JNRII Mark, your turn to start us off 21:38
markllama Again, this is a constant question. It maintains the minimum binding for the community. Right now it' doesn't offer much more than that. But I think that's the biggest value we have right now. While I agree training and outreach and education are good ideas, I'm unsure how LOPSA can be better at any of the specifics than the people currently training on any given tech item. 21:39
markllama How we sell "the community" I don't know, 21:40
markllama but I know I'd have more difficulty doing and learning my job over time without LOPSA 21:40
markllama not beecause of training or eductation formally, but because of access and contact with the people. 21:40
markllama is ready to try more though 21:41
markllama fin 21:41
JNRII Branson, your thoughts please. 21:41
sandinak So .. 21:41
sandinak IANA business man .. I can tell the stories of how that blows up 21:42
sandinak however .. I have to keep thinking that what they're asking is also value proposition. 21:42
sandinak while I agree with Mark .. there's LOTS of "free(ish)" resources on the net for "how do I foo a bar" … between freenode.net #{project} .. and most importantly #lopsa ;) 21:43
sandinak so I think for now we'd advocate on the community aspect of supporting a group trying to improve the "Art" .. but I think we need to be able to demonstrate on that 21:43
sandinak pointing out the groups an camaraderie we have .. and foster at conferences is a good start 21:44
sandinak noting how there is a concerted effort to move things forward is also a good discussion point. 21:44
sandinak however .. most of us are here because we *Want* to be here and *want* things to improve.... 21:45
sandinak so I'd also tell the prospective candidate this is their opportunity to be part of that effort… and encourage them to not just check a box .. but jump in with both feet 21:45
sandinak on the passion of their choice and find a gorup witih #LOPSA ( or advocate for one!) where they can impact. 21:46
sandinak \r\d 21:46
JNRII Over to Andree 21:46
AndreeJacobson Gosh, thise unnecessary carriage returns... Sigh... Unlimited access to some of the kindest and most qualified people in the industry, for almost any matter not just sysadmin. We all live the life, and it's great to be able to bounce ideas. I agree 100% with Branson, what is it they want out of it. Lets ask and see if we can provide! 21:46
AndreeJacobson It's really a matter of soliciting ideas. Build it and they will come doesnt work. Build what they ask for, thats a diffrent story. 21:47
AndreeJacobson Eot 21:47
JNRII From scott5: LOPSA has been pretty off the radar until recently. I was wondering what you are considering to be important to keeping LOPSA revitalized during your term? 21:48
markllama TERMINATOR_COUNT=7 21:48
JNRII Branson, your turn to start us off 21:48
sandinak heh 21:48
sandinak should I set $IFS 21:48
sandinak So i think a revitalization is key to the future of the org. I really want to see LOPSA move from a checkbox 21:49
sandinak to a benefit people go look for. I consider specifically having offerings and tools that are useful to members to be important. 21:50
sandinak I am also VP of a local ISSA .. and we have training for the CISSP that we developed in house and offer to members ( for free! ) as a benefit of being part 21:50
sandinak of the org. That's been hugely successful and has generated both membership because of it .. and renewals because they saw the benefit. 21:51
sandinak with that large a pool .. speakers are easier to find for meetings and events.. and we even have enough to keep the training up to date 21:51
sandinak I think taht type of model can be succesful here as well. 21:51
atsaloli cheers 21:51
markllama nods 21:52
sandinak  ; 21:52
JNRII Andree? 21:52
AndreeJacobson What he said... 21:52
AndreeJacobson Im not a huge fan of trainings and certifications. But what i think would be useful 21:53
AndreeJacobson Is to help employers set up questions that actually help determine if people know waht they say they know. 21:54
AndreeJacobson Kind of like our code, but for employers... Before i hire a sysadmin, i swear to ask these questions. 21:54
AndreeJacobson Or something along those lines, you can have a the certs in the world, but that deosnt matter of the employers dont know how to evaluate you. 21:55
AndreeJacobson Professional orgs are there to support youbin your profession, i think we shiuld cover a broader spectrum. To include employers. This also relates back the the question about reaching outside the IT zone. 21:56
AndreeJacobson We need one of those "so you want to hire a sysadmin" viral video 21:57
AndreeJacobson Eot 21:57
JNRII And lastly (This Time), Mark 21:57
markllama LOPSA's been off the radar? 21:59
markllama I mean I think it's been as on the radar as it's ever been. 21:59
markllama We've always struggled to get people of all kinds to recognize "sysadmin" as more than "computer janitor" 22:00
markllama that's why I personally tend to focus on getting academia to take us seriously. if they do, others might listen, that sysadmin is a job and a class of people. That said, i would say we probably have to work on all fronts, gettiing even the people doing the job, ad hoc until they learn more, to treat the work they do and themselves as more than computer handy-persons. 22:01
markllama I don't think we can neglect any chance to raise awareness and thoughtfulness... Picking which one to put resources into... I can be swayed 22:02
markllama end 22:02
JNRII Thank you 22:02
JNRII Last question in the queue, Give Bruce something else to read: 22:02
JNRII From scott5: (on behalf of another member) There's been quite a bit of up-and-out with lopsa over time -- makes it hard to find those people who are in more senior positions. Are there any plans to keep those folks/their interest? 22:02
JNRII Andree, you are up first 22:02
AndreeJacobson So, im starting to consider myself a bit more senior (in experience)... I plan to stay around for a while. 22:04
AndreeJacobson Personally, i find it more rewarding now than i maybe did in the past. We, the members that are involved, need to preach to our peers. 22:04
AndreeJacobson Explain why this important, and why we should all care. 22:05
AndreeJacobson It's on us. I get that people get more busy and have less time, i include myself in that, but this is important. 22:05
AndreeJacobson Ask our orgs if we can participate on work time as an official post, well be asked to explain how otd be good to the company, and theres our chance. 22:06
AndreeJacobson Eot 22:06
JNRII Mark? 22:07
markllama Kinda the same. I can't speak for others, I can only support people I know, locally as it is. I personally like the idea of maybe being able to encourage more people to learn and participate as part of the board. I don't know if that will work, but I'll give it a shot. I think people move up and out for a number of reasons, but at least one is a sense that there's not much they can do as part of the group to be effective.. 22:10
markllama en know what "effective" would mean. Perhaps that's where some of the initiative others here have spoken of would come in: To help find a clear definition of what 'effective growth and participation" would mean. 22:10
markllama I'll keep trying to encourage people to learn to make machines go well, and to make other people's work.... work... with the machines we have. I can hope that that example would extend to the senior people I work with 22:11
markllama Most I know will make themselves available when asked. How to make that a comfortable thing... We'll have to talk some about that. 22:11
markllama done 22:11
sandinak me again 22:11
JNRII Branson? 22:11
JNRII Yup 22:11
markllama PASTEBIN! 22:11
sandinak soooo tempting 22:12
markllama smirk 22:12
sandinak (sa means more than sysadmin apparently ) 22:12
sandinak anyway .. I think keeping interest of senior people means giving them reason 22:12
sandinak so that can be in the form of satisfaction of seeing peers improve ( wether senior or not ) from their experience 22:13
sandinak eg .. senior people are *experienced* .. wise .. they can look at a problem outside of context and see the solution based on prior art 22:13
sandinak that kind of thing is hard to pass off .. eg experience can't be taught per se .. but what they CAN do 22:13
sandinak ( it's like teaching troubleshooting ) 22:14
sandinak is be given a vehicle to promote their experience and ideas that come from it 22:14
sandinak the mentoring program is a fantastic opporunity .. but as I mentioned .. limited in scope. 22:14
sandinak I would continue to advocate .. and find ways to make mentoring more than a linked in mention 22:15
sandinak but perhaps celebrated at conferences in denoted in various ways ( branson matheson, LOPSA Mentor ) .. has a nice ring 22:15
sandinak Beyond that .. many ( but not all!) senior people like to impart their knowledge but are unable or perhaps unsure 22:16
sandinak because there aren't any clear ways to do it other than proposing a class for $conf 22:16
sandinak and seeing if it is accepted ( this is what I did ) 22:16
sandinak finding ways for us to facillitate turning experienced individuals into mentors .. and ultilmately instructors .. should be a strong goal 22:17
sandinak building frameworks and providing tools and support! ( that is people willing to listen, help and nudge ) for budding mentors and instructors is a key 22:17
sandinak goal that i think needs to be integrated into the LOPSA mindset. 22:17
sandinak by that .. we can return that effort on those senior people with both recognition and satisfaction of seeing their mentees ( did I make a word ) 22:18
sandinak and students succeed and come full circle to rise to the 'wisdom' level where they are now the coveted speakers, teachers and mentors. 22:19
sandinak \r\n :-P 22:19
JNRII It seems we have no more questions, so unless we have anything else, we are good to wrap up. 22:19
JNRII I want to thank the candidates for not only participating with giving us their thoughts tonight, but stepping up and committing to being on the board and helping lead LOPSA. 22:19
JNRII Thank you everyone, and goodnight 22:19
AndreeJacobson Thank you! 22:20
atsaloli thanks all! thanks for running the session, and to all for participating 22:20
cat-xeger Thank you! 22:20
sandinak thank you very much 22:20
sandinak hope I wasn't too ranty ;) 22:20
AndreeJacobson No comment 22:20
sandinak I really enjoyed this and would happily do it again 22:21
AndreeJacobson It was great 22:21
atsaloli anyway, I think it was a very successful session 22:21
JNRII ranty can be good, in the right forum, which, to me, this was. 22:21
AndreeJacobson Agreed. 22:21
atsaloli waves 22:21
atsaloli  :) 22:21
sandinak looks at AndreeJacobson .. :-P 22:21
AndreeJacobson Later 22:21
sandinak laters 22:21
BruceDavis being ranty show a degree of passion, which is needed 22:21
sandinak I can has passion 22:21
scott5 The transcript will be posted to the LOPSA site in a day or two for anyone who is interested and for those who couldn’t be here tonight. 22:22

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