| sandinak |
but also .. as sysadmins we have a bit of a culture that's not construed as "friendly" some times .. the guy in the hoodie in the closet .. and the aforemention BOFH |
21:35 |
| sandinak |
I think teaching soft skills is almost as important so we *can* have relevant and useful conversations with business leaders that help them make informed decisions and build |
21:36 |
| sandinak |
trust between those gorups |
21:36 |
| sandinak |
outside of beneficiaries .. I would like us to be seen as a resource for those aspiring to be sysadmins .. and those that are to improve |
21:36 |
| sandinak |
so providing those resources in some manner .. via training.. or mentor .. or meeting .. is where I think it's at .. but I dont' think any one of those tools will answer |
21:37 |
| sandinak |
it will take a balance combination and dedication. |
21:37 |
| sandinak |
End of Line |
21:37 |
| JNRII |
Thank you |
21:37 |
| JNRII |
Again, from Bruce: Current members and potential recruits may not ask it, but it's in the back of their minds when they are asked to lay down money for the privilege of joining LOPSA. "What's in it for me?" - How would answer them? |
21:37 |
| JNRII |
Mark, your turn to start us off |
21:38 |
| markllama |
Again, this is a constant question. It maintains the minimum binding for the community. Right now it' doesn't offer much more than that. But I think that's the biggest value we have right now. While I agree training and outreach and education are good ideas, I'm unsure how LOPSA can be better at any of the specifics than the people currently training on any given tech item. |
21:39 |
| markllama |
How we sell "the community" I don't know, |
21:40 |
| markllama |
but I know I'd have more difficulty doing and learning my job over time without LOPSA |
21:40 |
| markllama |
not beecause of training or eductation formally, but because of access and contact with the people. |
21:40 |
| markllama |
is ready to try more though |
21:41 |
| markllama |
fin |
21:41 |
| JNRII |
Branson, your thoughts please. |
21:41 |
| sandinak |
So .. |
21:41 |
| sandinak |
IANA business man .. I can tell the stories of how that blows up |
21:42 |
| sandinak |
however .. I have to keep thinking that what they're asking is also value proposition. |
21:42 |
| sandinak |
while I agree with Mark .. there's LOTS of "free(ish)" resources on the net for "how do I foo a bar" … between freenode.net #{project} .. and most importantly #lopsa ;) |
21:43 |
| sandinak |
so I think for now we'd advocate on the community aspect of supporting a group trying to improve the "Art" .. but I think we need to be able to demonstrate on that |
21:43 |
| sandinak |
pointing out the groups an camaraderie we have .. and foster at conferences is a good start |
21:44 |
| sandinak |
noting how there is a concerted effort to move things forward is also a good discussion point. |
21:44 |
| sandinak |
however .. most of us are here because we *Want* to be here and *want* things to improve.... |
21:45 |
| sandinak |
so I'd also tell the prospective candidate this is their opportunity to be part of that effort… and encourage them to not just check a box .. but jump in with both feet |
21:45 |
| sandinak |
on the passion of their choice and find a gorup witih #LOPSA ( or advocate for one!) where they can impact. |
21:46 |
| sandinak |
\r\d |
21:46 |
| JNRII |
Over to Andree |
21:46 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Gosh, thise unnecessary carriage returns... Sigh... Unlimited access to some of the kindest and most qualified people in the industry, for almost any matter not just sysadmin. We all live the life, and it's great to be able to bounce ideas. I agree 100% with Branson, what is it they want out of it. Lets ask and see if we can provide! |
21:46 |
| AndreeJacobson |
It's really a matter of soliciting ideas. Build it and they will come doesnt work. Build what they ask for, thats a diffrent story. |
21:47 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Eot |
21:47 |
| JNRII |
From scott5: LOPSA has been pretty off the radar until recently. I was wondering what you are considering to be important to keeping LOPSA revitalized during your term? |
21:48 |
| markllama |
TERMINATOR_COUNT=7 |
21:48 |
| JNRII |
Branson, your turn to start us off |
21:48 |
| sandinak |
heh |
21:48 |
| sandinak |
should I set $IFS |
21:48 |
| sandinak |
So i think a revitalization is key to the future of the org. I really want to see LOPSA move from a checkbox |
21:49 |
| sandinak |
to a benefit people go look for. I consider specifically having offerings and tools that are useful to members to be important. |
21:50 |
| sandinak |
I am also VP of a local ISSA .. and we have training for the CISSP that we developed in house and offer to members ( for free! ) as a benefit of being part |
21:50 |
| sandinak |
of the org. That's been hugely successful and has generated both membership because of it .. and renewals because they saw the benefit. |
21:51 |
| sandinak |
with that large a pool .. speakers are easier to find for meetings and events.. and we even have enough to keep the training up to date |
21:51 |
| sandinak |
I think taht type of model can be succesful here as well. |
21:51 |
| atsaloli |
cheers |
21:51 |
| markllama |
nods |
21:52 |
| sandinak |
; |
21:52 |
| JNRII |
Andree? |
21:52 |
| AndreeJacobson |
What he said... |
21:52 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Im not a huge fan of trainings and certifications. But what i think would be useful |
21:53 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Is to help employers set up questions that actually help determine if people know waht they say they know. |
21:54 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Kind of like our code, but for employers... Before i hire a sysadmin, i swear to ask these questions. |
21:54 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Or something along those lines, you can have a the certs in the world, but that deosnt matter of the employers dont know how to evaluate you. |
21:55 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Professional orgs are there to support youbin your profession, i think we shiuld cover a broader spectrum. To include employers. This also relates back the the question about reaching outside the IT zone. |
21:56 |
| AndreeJacobson |
We need one of those "so you want to hire a sysadmin" viral video |
21:57 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Eot |
21:57 |
| JNRII |
And lastly (This Time), Mark |
21:57 |
| markllama |
LOPSA's been off the radar? |
21:59 |
| markllama |
I mean I think it's been as on the radar as it's ever been. |
21:59 |
| markllama |
We've always struggled to get people of all kinds to recognize "sysadmin" as more than "computer janitor" |
22:00 |
| markllama |
that's why I personally tend to focus on getting academia to take us seriously. if they do, others might listen, that sysadmin is a job and a class of people. That said, i would say we probably have to work on all fronts, gettiing even the people doing the job, ad hoc until they learn more, to treat the work they do and themselves as more than computer handy-persons. |
22:01 |
| markllama |
I don't think we can neglect any chance to raise awareness and thoughtfulness... Picking which one to put resources into... I can be swayed |
22:02 |
| markllama |
end |
22:02 |
| JNRII |
Thank you |
22:02 |
| JNRII |
Last question in the queue, Give Bruce something else to read: |
22:02 |
| JNRII |
From scott5: (on behalf of another member) There's been quite a bit of up-and-out with lopsa over time -- makes it hard to find those people who are in more senior positions. Are there any plans to keep those folks/their interest? |
22:02 |
| JNRII |
Andree, you are up first |
22:02 |
| AndreeJacobson |
So, im starting to consider myself a bit more senior (in experience)... I plan to stay around for a while. |
22:04 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Personally, i find it more rewarding now than i maybe did in the past. We, the members that are involved, need to preach to our peers. |
22:04 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Explain why this important, and why we should all care. |
22:05 |
| AndreeJacobson |
It's on us. I get that people get more busy and have less time, i include myself in that, but this is important. |
22:05 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Ask our orgs if we can participate on work time as an official post, well be asked to explain how otd be good to the company, and theres our chance. |
22:06 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Eot |
22:06 |
| JNRII |
Mark? |
22:07 |
| markllama |
Kinda the same. I can't speak for others, I can only support people I know, locally as it is. I personally like the idea of maybe being able to encourage more people to learn and participate as part of the board. I don't know if that will work, but I'll give it a shot. I think people move up and out for a number of reasons, but at least one is a sense that there's not much they can do as part of the group to be effective.. |
22:10 |
| markllama |
en know what "effective" would mean. Perhaps that's where some of the initiative others here have spoken of would come in: To help find a clear definition of what 'effective growth and participation" would mean. |
22:10 |
| markllama |
I'll keep trying to encourage people to learn to make machines go well, and to make other people's work.... work... with the machines we have. I can hope that that example would extend to the senior people I work with |
22:11 |
| markllama |
Most I know will make themselves available when asked. How to make that a comfortable thing... We'll have to talk some about that. |
22:11 |
| markllama |
done |
22:11 |
| sandinak |
me again |
22:11 |
| JNRII |
Branson? |
22:11 |
| JNRII |
Yup |
22:11 |
| markllama |
PASTEBIN! |
22:11 |
| sandinak |
soooo tempting |
22:12 |
| markllama |
smirk |
22:12 |
| sandinak |
(sa means more than sysadmin apparently ) |
22:12 |
| sandinak |
anyway .. I think keeping interest of senior people means giving them reason |
22:12 |
| sandinak |
so that can be in the form of satisfaction of seeing peers improve ( wether senior or not ) from their experience |
22:13 |
| sandinak |
eg .. senior people are *experienced* .. wise .. they can look at a problem outside of context and see the solution based on prior art |
22:13 |
| sandinak |
that kind of thing is hard to pass off .. eg experience can't be taught per se .. but what they CAN do |
22:13 |
| sandinak |
( it's like teaching troubleshooting ) |
22:14 |
| sandinak |
is be given a vehicle to promote their experience and ideas that come from it |
22:14 |
| sandinak |
the mentoring program is a fantastic opporunity .. but as I mentioned .. limited in scope. |
22:14 |
| sandinak |
I would continue to advocate .. and find ways to make mentoring more than a linked in mention |
22:15 |
| sandinak |
but perhaps celebrated at conferences in denoted in various ways ( branson matheson, LOPSA Mentor ) .. has a nice ring |
22:15 |
| sandinak |
Beyond that .. many ( but not all!) senior people like to impart their knowledge but are unable or perhaps unsure |
22:16 |
| sandinak |
because there aren't any clear ways to do it other than proposing a class for $conf |
22:16 |
| sandinak |
and seeing if it is accepted ( this is what I did ) |
22:16 |
| sandinak |
finding ways for us to facillitate turning experienced individuals into mentors .. and ultilmately instructors .. should be a strong goal |
22:17 |
| sandinak |
building frameworks and providing tools and support! ( that is people willing to listen, help and nudge ) for budding mentors and instructors is a key |
22:17 |
| sandinak |
goal that i think needs to be integrated into the LOPSA mindset. |
22:17 |
| sandinak |
by that .. we can return that effort on those senior people with both recognition and satisfaction of seeing their mentees ( did I make a word ) |
22:18 |
| sandinak |
and students succeed and come full circle to rise to the 'wisdom' level where they are now the coveted speakers, teachers and mentors. |
22:19 |
| sandinak |
\r\n :-P |
22:19 |
| JNRII |
It seems we have no more questions, so unless we have anything else, we are good to wrap up. |
22:19 |
| JNRII |
I want to thank the candidates for not only participating with giving us their thoughts tonight, but stepping up and committing to being on the board and helping lead LOPSA. |
22:19 |
| JNRII |
Thank you everyone, and goodnight |
22:19 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Thank you! |
22:20 |
| atsaloli |
thanks all! thanks for running the session, and to all for participating |
22:20 |
| cat-xeger |
Thank you! |
22:20 |
| sandinak |
thank you very much |
22:20 |
| sandinak |
hope I wasn't too ranty ;) |
22:20 |
| AndreeJacobson |
No comment |
22:20 |
| sandinak |
I really enjoyed this and would happily do it again |
22:21 |
| AndreeJacobson |
It was great |
22:21 |
| atsaloli |
anyway, I think it was a very successful session |
22:21 |
| JNRII |
ranty can be good, in the right forum, which, to me, this was. |
22:21 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Agreed. |
22:21 |
| atsaloli |
waves |
22:21 |
| atsaloli |
:) |
22:21 |
| sandinak |
looks at AndreeJacobson .. :-P |
22:21 |
| AndreeJacobson |
Later |
22:21 |
| sandinak |
laters |
22:21 |
| BruceDavis |
being ranty show a degree of passion, which is needed |
22:21 |
| sandinak |
I can has passion |
22:21 |
| scott5 |
The transcript will be posted to the LOPSA site in a day or two for anyone who is interested and for those who couldn’t be here tonight. |
22:22 |
